OOXML "approve" in Russia

Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia

Sat, 06 Oct 2007 16:23:37 +0000

Oh NO!! I didn't expect our government to take such a silly decision! >8((
Черт побери! Не ожидал от наших такого тупого решения (((

Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia

Wed, 26 Sep 2007 10:46:43 +0000

I have contacted Evgeny Petrosyan today by phone. We have a long and productive conversation (approximately 1 hour).
He don't looks like Microsoft lobbies, nor as open source enthusiast.
In brief, i receive following answers:

GostR send "Approve" because it doesn't receive any complains about OOXML from TK 22 (Technical сommittee 22) or someone else. It can be truth, at least, it need a physical (paper) arguments to stand with. It seems like it is politic of GostR - always vote "YES" on standart if no strict arguments known for voting "NO". According to his words, abstaining will stop progress.
Mr. Petrosyan agrees that some technical questions must be solved in this standart before submission.
Mr. Petrosyan disagrees that any political (monopoly regulation, closed source) questions may be the arguments to disagree with this standart.
Mr. Petrosyan confirms that we (anybody) can send a technical notes regarding this standart, and it will be examined. Preferably, to the TK 22.

I think, that we need to prepare for the next voting for OOXML, and make a strictly clean that a lot of technical problems exists inside this document.

Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia

Fri, 14 Sep 2007 18:34:04 +0000

I cleaned this thread up on request. If anyone feels offended by my edits, please let me know. If a moderator with delete privileges sees this (I have only editing privileges), feel free to remove the now empty posts, the requests for removal and my earlier responses to those requests. This post might be worth keeping to name the person (me) who did the hack-and-slash.

Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia

Fri, 14 Sep 2007 03:08:38 +0000

To moderators:
Please remove posts

1. Anonymous (81.18.113.138) 12 Sep 2007, 04:34 +0400
[Edit by stegu: Quote deleted]

2. Anonymous (128.197.11.30) 12 Sep 2007, 00:57 +0400
[Edit by stegu: Quote deleted]

3. Anonymous (87.252.227.38) 11 Sep 2007, 23:29 +0400
[Edit by stegu: Quote deleted]

4. Anonymous (85.25.138.222) 12 Sep 2007, 00:47 +0400
[Edit by stegu: Quote deleted]

Looks like that's all.

Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia

Fri, 14 Sep 2007 00:48:25 +0000

I just became a moderator, and I tried my best to remove the posts I could verify myself to be abusive or completely off-topic. However, some posts did not make much sense to me by using automatic translation due to misspellings or other problems. Please use English in your posts if possible, and please let any of the moderators know if a particular post is abusive, completely off-topic or otherwise strongly objectionable. I do not feel comfortable removing posts I don't understand, so if you can, please provide a rough translation of objectionable posts.

Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia

Fri, 14 Sep 2007 00:24:42 +0000

You can use various online translators…

Yes, certainly, my wording was "please". Using English in the post (possibly in addition to another language) will improve the readability a lot for most readers. For someone not speaking a certain language, it is difficult to identify it by just looking at it, and then even an online translator is rather useless. (OK, in this case it is pretty obvious from the context that it is Russian, so I am just whining. Sorry.)

Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia

Thu, 13 Sep 2007 14:10:56 +0000

Where is massive efforts to support this investigation in Russia. One of the deputy of Russian Congress (Duma) prepared and officially submit request for official investigation

Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia

Thu, 13 Sep 2007 13:37:34 +0000

i don`t want live in Russia - anyone out here need excellent xslt (1.0 & 2.0) and xquery (1.0) developer? :)

Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia

Thu, 13 Sep 2007 09:26:41 +0000

Moderators, please remove posts in Russian, because some of them completely abusive.

At least:
23:29 +0400
00:57 +0400

As you can't judge is the post is correct, I think best way just to remove them all.

Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia

Wed, 12 Sep 2007 22:44:34 +0000

Oh, yes, didn't they test a new toy today?

Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia

Wed, 12 Sep 2007 17:58:47 +0000

"It seems like nobody knows why OOXML is approved by Russian Federation without any comments at all."

I don't understand it ( possible causes of Russia vote: a tremendous lack of interest for technical questions or a tremendous amount of $$$$ from MS to the Russian government or standards body ).

By the way, the Department of Defense of USA participated in this process and expressed serious concerns about this +6000 pages proposed "standard". Citing DoD words:

"DOD will be focusing our attention within the specification where the following concerns may require additional technical effort. 1) Binary information in the standard that would lead to security concerns… "
( http://ballot.itic.org/itic/tallyvote.taf?function=detail&response_id=113266 )

May be the Russian "department of defense" should participate and voice his opinion too … if there are security concerns, i believe that Russia would be interested to find out.

Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia

Wed, 12 Sep 2007 17:21:31 +0000

come on Russia, don't sell yourself so easily ! fight this!

this is about an ISO international standard … this is serious , you can't just say "yes , i approve this +6000 pages as is" …

even the country ( USA ) of the submitter ( Microsoft ) had generated more than 400 comments. Some of the USA "commentators" are: James Mason, char of ISO JTC1 with +30 years of experience in electronic document standards , Jon Bosak, one of the fathers of XML! , Frank Farance, neutral standards consultant … it seems that they are very worried about this +6000 fast tracked beast .

i.e.:

http://www.ibiblio.org/bosak/v1mail/200706/2007Jun19-052233.eml
http://www.streamingweb.no/v1-ooxml.pdf
http://www.ibiblio.org/bosak/v1mail/200706/2007Jun22-081045.eml
http://ballot.itic.org/itic/tallyvote.taf?function=detail&response_id=115320

Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia

Wed, 12 Sep 2007 16:37:58 +0000

I guess the Russian government understands national interest behind these resource battles. So rather than to deal with officials and members from standards bodies I suggest you to turn it into a more high-level case. As Doug Magouth from Microsoft clarified: it is about a 12 billion revenue stream. The Chinese and French understood it. The Russian government has also a tradition of strategic thought. It should defend the national interest. Forget the standard body guys, they don't know what is in the chest they guard for the US company.

Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia

Wed, 12 Sep 2007 11:35:47 +0000

Первоначальный пост был мой. der @ rusig . ru
The first post is my. der @ rusig . ru

Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia

Wed, 12 Sep 2007 09:16:31 +0000

You can use varius online translators…

Post of top anonymous:

«Due to last pronouncement of russian establishment about Linux and Open Source, i think that Microsoft buy the half of Russian Government… I don't want live in country named "Microsoft Federation"».

Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia

Wed, 12 Sep 2007 09:15:56 +0000

Мужики Вы нарушаете "Закон", Наша дума приняла недавно закон, по которому Вы не имеете права ругать власти, т.к. это разрушает "госстрой". Так что, следите за базаром…

А если Вам не страшно…

А по мне наши, 100% ПРОДАЖНЫЕ (еще не видел ни одно честного ЧИНОВНИКА) КАЗНОКРАДЫ, продались буржуям и здесь. По мне так они планируют закупить много ГАВНА от M$, и доиться, доиться и доиться… А далее пилить наши с Вами деньги (Казна складывается из налогов, которые мы платим) с буржуями и ВСЕ!!!!

А потом будут рассуждать о национальной независимости, безопасности.

Если так дело дальше пойдет, то представьте себе:

Русские Ядерные ракеты с этикетками M$… И думай потом у кого "Красная кнопка"

МНЕ СТЫДНО, ЗА РУКОВОДСТВО НАШЕЙ ВЕЛИКОЙ СТРАНЫ!

Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia

Wed, 12 Sep 2007 07:24:39 +0000

Please keep your posts in English. Other languages will not be understood by most readers of this site. I can understand "Микрософт", but that's about it…

Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia

Wed, 12 Sep 2007 06:38:27 +0000

What did you expect from country where MS just buy customers ?
Have you ever heard about www.ms-bonus.ru ? Once (2005-2006) this was a controversial bonus program by Microsoft-Russia, when admin would get 5% bonus to obtain home equipment for himself, not for company thah actually bought software. This was even admitted in newspapers and by Microsoft employee Leonid Kleymann! He said that this is very clever way to increase sales.

And I say - very easy way to make persons to choose "right" decision over MS products.
After a scandal with ms-bonus.ru MS distantiated from it. Without any word. But several links still exist.
Dig into this, and you will shed light on how MS works in Russia.

Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia

Wed, 12 Sep 2007 04:38:31 +0000

Судя по последним высказываниям власть имущих в сторону линукса и открытого кода есть мнение что микрософт купило половину правительства РФ… отчего я не хочу жить в стране Федерация Микрософт.

Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia

Wed, 12 Sep 2007 03:40:55 +0000

I communicated with the technical committee of 22 before vote (with Pyavchenko Askold Nikolayevich). they worked on OOXML. In private conversation I was told that the technical committee wants abstain (late July). But they either changed or fabricated. Now we write a letter to the federal Agency for Technical Regulation.
post scriptum: sorry for my english