OOXML "approve" in Russia
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started by: Anonymous (192.9.200.29)
on: 1189426529|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
number of posts: 48
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There is a deep darkness upon "approvement" from Russia in ISO voting for OOXML. Try to lighten this darkness.
OOXML "approve" in Russia
Anonymous (192.9.200.29) 1189426530|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Why Russia approves OOXML without comments?

It seems like nobody knows why OOXML is approved by Russian Federation without any comments at all.
It is difficult to think that 6000 - pages document can be approved without comments at all.
I think, no technical experienced specialist in Russian government even read this document before making this decision.
It will be much more correct to just abstain in this case.

I decide to start investigation regarding this question.
I tryes to find out who approve this, and find out interesting facts:
Physically the approvement was made by Natalya Shevchenko (Наталья Шевченко), not a technical specialist but just a clerk in "Управление международных связей Федерального агентства по техническому регулированию и метрологии" - RF government structure, responcible for technical standarts and metrology.
By her words, the approvement was made by direct phone call from her chief, Evgeny Petrosyan (Евгений Робертович Петросян), deputy director of this structure.
No clear evidence of some working group or technical meeting is currently available.
E.P. Petrosyan is currently not available by his phone.

I will try to provide more informating regarding this matter then it will be available.

unfold OOXML "approve" in Russia by Anonymous (192.9.200.29), 1189426530|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia
stegustegu 1189439568|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Thank you for trying to bring light into this. There are clearly a disturbingly large number of countries worldwide who have taken rather too much liberties with their unconditional approval, and Russia is one of those. (As you surely know, Sweden was almost another - we were very close to having Sweden's official vote be "yes" without comments due to a last-minute stuffing of the committee. Only some unspecified formal technicality saved us.)

For people outside Russia it is very difficult to ask around. I wouldn't even know where to begin, and there is not enough information available in English for me to find my way around the Russian administration. If anyone local, like you, could try to get more information it would be very interesting to hear it. Good luck, and tell us what you find! (Or what you don't find, that could be just as interesting.)

unfold Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia by stegustegu, 1189439568|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia
Anonymous (195.128.67.199) 1189498810|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Guess, bribery is the word. When a large company (put the name here) meets a Russian official (put the name here) - guess what happens next.

unfold Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia by Anonymous (195.128.67.199), 1189498810|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia
stegustegu 1189525629|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Guessing gets us nowhere. We need verifiable information.

unfold Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia by stegustegu, 1189525629|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia
podmoklepodmokle 1189529429|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Well, document standards are also a matter of national interest.

unfold Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia by podmoklepodmokle, 1189529429|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia
Anonymous (81.1.223.5) 1189507048|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

can you place here the phone numbers of persons you talk about?

unfold Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia by Anonymous (81.1.223.5), 1189507048|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia
Anonymous (88.210.55.253) 1189509082|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Петросян Евгений Робертович (Evgeny Petrosyan) (495) 236-30-48 ur.tsog|naysortep#ur.tsog|naysortep

from http://www.informprom.ru/about.html?11

unfold Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia by Anonymous (88.210.55.253), 1189509082|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia
Anonymous (81.18.114.14) 1189522980|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Its all about the money… Our government never do what is good and reasonable if there is no profit for concrete officials.

unfold Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia by Anonymous (81.18.114.14), 1189522980|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia
Anonymous (192.168.0.40) 1189532116|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Автор, дайте пожалуйста своё мыло. Хотелось бы связаться с Вами, если возможно.

unfold Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia by Anonymous (192.168.0.40), 1189532116|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia
Anonymous (195.189.81.92) 1189538860|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Технический комитет "Информационные технологии" (ТК 22)
The Technical Committee" Information technology "

ТК 22 "Информационные технологии”

Данные о Секретариате ТК22
Почтовый адрес: 119607, Москва, ул. Удальцова, 85, ФГУП НИИ “Восход”
Председатель: Пьявченко Аскольд Николаевич(Pyavchenko Askold Nikolayevich), Зам. директора по качеству ФГУП НИИ "Восход"
Телефон: +7 (495) 932-73-10
Факс: +7 (495) 931-55-22
E-mail:ur.enilno|vaip22ct#ur.enilno|vaip22ct, ur.dohksov.iin|nap#ur.dohksov.iin|nap

my e-mail: toekimov dog gmail.com

unfold Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia by Anonymous (195.189.81.92), 1189538860|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia
Anonymous (89.223.32.66) 1189544644|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

there are two technical groups within the "Управление международных связей Федерального агентства по техническому регулированию и метрологии": 21 is a telecomunnication group and 22 is a IT group. But nobody knows now if they have checked the OOXML draft standart…

Anyone can ask them. Here are some info:

group 21: http://tinyurl.com/ynn4ya
group 22: http://tinyurl.com/yoj9ub

unfold Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia by Anonymous (89.223.32.66), 1189544644|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia
Anonymous (195.189.81.92) 1189568455|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

I communicated with the technical committee of 22 before vote (with Pyavchenko Askold Nikolayevich). they worked on OOXML. In private conversation I was told that the technical committee wants abstain (late July). But they either changed or fabricated. Now we write a letter to the federal Agency for Technical Regulation.
post scriptum: sorry for my english

unfold Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia by Anonymous (195.189.81.92), 1189568455|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia
Anonymous (88.191.22.62) 1189579107|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

What did you expect from country where MS just buy customers ?
Have you ever heard about www.ms-bonus.ru ? Once (2005-2006) this was a controversial bonus program by Microsoft-Russia, when admin would get 5% bonus to obtain home equipment for himself, not for company thah actually bought software. This was even admitted in newspapers and by Microsoft employee Leonid Kleymann! He said that this is very clever way to increase sales.

And I say - very easy way to make persons to choose "right" decision over MS products.
After a scandal with ms-bonus.ru MS distantiated from it. Without any word. But several links still exist.
Dig into this, and you will shed light on how MS works in Russia.

unfold Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia by Anonymous (88.191.22.62), 1189579107|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia
Anonymous (192.9.200.29) 1189508988|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Of course. Question must be asked to Evgeny Robertovich Petrosyan. Phone +7 (495) 236-30-48.
But his phone currently don't answer - he seems to be on vacation.
There is discussion regarding this on Russian
The phone of Natalya Shevchenko is +7 (495) 236 01 00.

unfold Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia by Anonymous (192.9.200.29), 1189508988|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia
Anonymous (91.192.113.226) 1189514529|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

it's a Russia. if you have a money you have a law.
imho m$ pay to somebody like in Swedish(?).

m$->?->?->…->?->approved

unfold Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia by Anonymous (91.192.113.226), 1189514529|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia
Anonymous (195.218.225.12) 1189515211|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Я рад что живу в этой великой стране - россия(((((
I'am very happy than i live in greate country - russia(((((((

ППц, я такого не ожидал…

I hate our goverment!!

unfold Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia by Anonymous (195.218.225.12), 1189515211|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia
Anonymous (192.168.10.16) 1189517466|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

А что вы ожидали?

unfold Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia by Anonymous (192.168.10.16), 1189517466|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia
Anonymous (89.179.12.85) 1189538284|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

ну хотябы обычный флуд развелибыкакие нибудь"инженеры" и неглядяподписали - надо нашим учиться инсценировкам у грузии!!

unfold Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia by Anonymous (89.179.12.85), 1189538284|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia
Anonymous (195.112.231.127) 1189518527|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

[edit by stegu: off-topic rant removed]

last edited on 1189729870|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover by stegu + show more
unfold Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia by Anonymous (195.112.231.127), 1189518527|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia
Anonymous (89.175.165.2) 1189522439|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

At least in U.S. there are SOME documents related to vote.

Looks like in Russia there was NO discussion, NO paper trail AT ALL - just a few phone calls and resolution "Russia vote is yes".

last edited on 1189794929|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover by stegu + show more
unfold Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia by Anonymous (89.175.165.2), 1189522439|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia
stegustegu 1189525564|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

It's really of no use fighting in here over who had the worst process. It has been pretty bad all over the world. Furthermore, any irregularities seem to have been more or less independent of the level of democracy in a country. My home country Sweden is generally considered to be very democratic, but look what happened to our ISO vote!

The discussion we need to have here is what happened in various countries, whether it was illegal or just irregular, and what we can possibly do about it.

last edited on 1189525693|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover by stegu + show more
unfold Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia by stegustegu, 1189525564|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia
Anonymous (89.204.58.248) 1189526531|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Guys, stop insulting each other, this is just disgusting. Let's better think how to finally bury OOXML in February.

unfold Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia by Anonymous (89.204.58.248), 1189526531|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia
Anonymous (217.112.214.190) 1189530678|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

ISO process is easily hacked by money.
ISO needs to
1) forbid formats which have less than 2 independant implementations.
2) forbid vote for MS partners in all countries on MS formats.
3) lower weight/exclude countries with high corruption level.

unfold Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia by Anonymous (217.112.214.190), 1189530678|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia
Anonymous (128.163.161.49) 1189534835|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

[edit by stegu: rant removed]

last edited on 1189794884|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover by stegu + show more
unfold Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia by Anonymous (128.163.161.49), 1189534835|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia
Anonymous (192.168.0.40) 1189532257|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Автор, напишите пожалуйста на deepmindster на gmail точка com

unfold Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia by Anonymous (192.168.0.40), 1189532257|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia
Anonymous (192.168.0.40) 1189532318|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

хотелось бы связаться и попытаться консолидировать действия

unfold Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia by Anonymous (192.168.0.40), 1189532318|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia
Anonymous (195.189.81.92) 1189538924|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

toekimov dog gmail.com

unfold Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia by Anonymous (195.189.81.92), 1189538924|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia
Anonymous (192.9.200.29) 1189596947|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Первоначальный пост был мой. der @ rusig . ru
The first post is my. der @ rusig . ru

unfold Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia by Anonymous (192.9.200.29), 1189596947|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia
Anonymous (84.204.200.146) 1189538499|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

In Russia the shortest way to get into a jail is to do something right… as a result, nobody dares.

unfold Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia by Anonymous (84.204.200.146), 1189538499|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia
Anonymous (128.197.11.30) 1189544226|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

[Edit by stegu: Insulting post deleted]

last edited on 1189794182|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover by stegu + show more
unfold Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia by Anonymous (128.197.11.30), 1189544226|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia
Anonymous (89.223.32.66) 1189544677|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

ну вот. понабежали ананимусы с ЛОРа…

придурки — не позорились бы…

unfold Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia by Anonymous (89.223.32.66), 1189544677|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia
Anonymous (85.234.2.20) 1189571911|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Судя по последним высказываниям власть имущих в сторону линукса и открытого кода есть мнение что микрософт купило половину правительства РФ… отчего я не хочу жить в стране Федерация Микрософт.

unfold Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia by Anonymous (85.234.2.20), 1189571911|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia
stegustegu 1189581879|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Please keep your posts in English. Other languages will not be understood by most readers of this site. I can understand "Микрософт", but that's about it…

last edited on 1189581934|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover by stegu + show more
unfold Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia by stegustegu, 1189581879|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia
Anonymous (217.10.38.79) 1189588591|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

You can use varius online translators…

Post of top anonymous:

«Due to last pronouncement of russian establishment about Linux and Open Source, i think that Microsoft buy the half of Russian Government… I don't want live in country named "Microsoft Federation"».

unfold Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia by Anonymous (217.10.38.79), 1189588591|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia
stegustegu 1189729482|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

You can use various online translators…

Yes, certainly, my wording was "please". Using English in the post (possibly in addition to another language) will improve the readability a lot for most readers. For someone not speaking a certain language, it is difficult to identify it by just looking at it, and then even an online translator is rather useless. (OK, in this case it is pretty obvious from the context that it is Russian, so I am just whining. Sorry.)

unfold Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia by stegustegu, 1189729482|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia
Anonymous (83.146.121.66) 1189588556|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Мужики Вы нарушаете "Закон", Наша дума приняла недавно закон, по которому Вы не имеете права ругать власти, т.к. это разрушает "госстрой". Так что, следите за базаром…

А если Вам не страшно…

А по мне наши, 100% ПРОДАЖНЫЕ (еще не видел ни одно честного ЧИНОВНИКА) КАЗНОКРАДЫ, продались буржуям и здесь. По мне так они планируют закупить много ГАВНА от M$, и доиться, доиться и доиться… А далее пилить наши с Вами деньги (Казна складывается из налогов, которые мы платим) с буржуями и ВСЕ!!!!

А потом будут рассуждать о национальной независимости, безопасности.

Если так дело дальше пойдет, то представьте себе:

Русские Ядерные ракеты с этикетками M$… И думай потом у кого "Красная кнопка"

МНЕ СТЫДНО, ЗА РУКОВОДСТВО НАШЕЙ ВЕЛИКОЙ СТРАНЫ!

unfold Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia by Anonymous (83.146.121.66), 1189588556|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia
podmoklepodmokle 1189615078|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

I guess the Russian government understands national interest behind these resource battles. So rather than to deal with officials and members from standards bodies I suggest you to turn it into a more high-level case. As Doug Magouth from Microsoft clarified: it is about a 12 billion revenue stream. The Chinese and French understood it. The Russian government has also a tradition of strategic thought. It should defend the national interest. Forget the standard body guys, they don't know what is in the chest they guard for the US company.

last edited on 1189615193|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover by podmokle + show more
unfold Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia by podmoklepodmokle, 1189615078|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia
Anonymous (143.4.12.43) 1189617691|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

come on Russia, don't sell yourself so easily ! fight this!

this is about an ISO international standard … this is serious , you can't just say "yes , i approve this +6000 pages as is" …

even the country ( USA ) of the submitter ( Microsoft ) had generated more than 400 comments. Some of the USA "commentators" are: James Mason, char of ISO JTC1 with +30 years of experience in electronic document standards , Jon Bosak, one of the fathers of XML! , Frank Farance, neutral standards consultant … it seems that they are very worried about this +6000 fast tracked beast .

i.e.:

http://www.ibiblio.org/bosak/v1mail/200706/2007Jun19-052233.eml
http://www.streamingweb.no/v1-ooxml.pdf
http://www.ibiblio.org/bosak/v1mail/200706/2007Jun22-081045.eml
http://ballot.itic.org/itic/tallyvote.taf?function=detail&response_id=115320

unfold Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia by Anonymous (143.4.12.43), 1189617691|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia
Anonymous (143.4.12.43) 1189619927|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

"It seems like nobody knows why OOXML is approved by Russian Federation without any comments at all."

I don't understand it ( possible causes of Russia vote: a tremendous lack of interest for technical questions or a tremendous amount of $$$$ from MS to the Russian government or standards body ).

By the way, the Department of Defense of USA participated in this process and expressed serious concerns about this +6000 pages proposed "standard". Citing DoD words:

"DOD will be focusing our attention within the specification where the following concerns may require additional technical effort. 1) Binary information in the standard that would lead to security concerns… "
( http://ballot.itic.org/itic/tallyvote.taf?function=detail&response_id=113266 )

May be the Russian "department of defense" should participate and voice his opinion too … if there are security concerns, i believe that Russia would be interested to find out.

unfold Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia by Anonymous (143.4.12.43), 1189619927|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia
podmoklepodmokle 1189637074|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Oh, yes, didn't they test a new toy today?

unfold Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia by podmoklepodmokle, 1189637074|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia
Anonymous (194.186.172.4) 1189675601|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Moderators, please remove posts in Russian, because some of them completely abusive.

At least:
23:29 +0400
00:57 +0400

As you can't judge is the post is correct, I think best way just to remove them all.

unfold Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia by Anonymous (194.186.172.4), 1189675601|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia
stegustegu 1189730905|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

I just became a moderator, and I tried my best to remove the posts I could verify myself to be abusive or completely off-topic. However, some posts did not make much sense to me by using automatic translation due to misspellings or other problems. Please use English in your posts if possible, and please let any of the moderators know if a particular post is abusive, completely off-topic or otherwise strongly objectionable. I do not feel comfortable removing posts I don't understand, so if you can, please provide a rough translation of objectionable posts.

unfold Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia by stegustegu, 1189730905|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia
Anonymous (192.168.109.105) 1189690654|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

i don`t want live in Russia - anyone out here need excellent xslt (1.0 & 2.0) and xquery (1.0) developer? :)

unfold Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia by Anonymous (192.168.109.105), 1189690654|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia
Anonymous (192.9.200.29) 1189692656|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Where is massive efforts to support this investigation in Russia. One of the deputy of Russian Congress (Duma) prepared and officially submit request for official investigation

unfold Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia by Anonymous (192.9.200.29), 1189692656|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia
Anonymous (217.15.136.163) 1189739318|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

To moderators:
Please remove posts

1. Anonymous (81.18.113.138) 12 Sep 2007, 04:34 +0400
[Edit by stegu: Quote deleted]

2. Anonymous (128.197.11.30) 12 Sep 2007, 00:57 +0400
[Edit by stegu: Quote deleted]

3. Anonymous (87.252.227.38) 11 Sep 2007, 23:29 +0400
[Edit by stegu: Quote deleted]

4. Anonymous (85.25.138.222) 12 Sep 2007, 00:47 +0400
[Edit by stegu: Quote deleted]

Looks like that's all.

last edited on 1189794497|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover by stegu + show more
unfold Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia by Anonymous (217.15.136.163), 1189739318|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia
stegustegu 1189794844|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

I cleaned this thread up on request. If anyone feels offended by my edits, please let me know. If a moderator with delete privileges sees this (I have only editing privileges), feel free to remove the now empty posts, the requests for removal and my earlier responses to those requests. This post might be worth keeping to name the person (me) who did the hack-and-slash.

unfold Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia by stegustegu, 1189794844|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: OOXML "approve" in Russia
Alexan_derAlexan_der 1190803603|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

I have contacted Evgeny Petrosyan today by phone. We have a long and productive conversation (approximately 1 hour).
He don't looks like